As for lust, it would make more sense to clients prostitute to be victim vs prostitute who may be working not due to her own lust. The pattern is quite apparent, not least of which because its in the title of the film. Of course, given the films attitude towards life in a big city, its entirely possible that the lack of anybody noticing was meant to refer more to the city than the victim in question. The sloth scene was also pretty goddamn haunting . That scene was so horrific and memorable, I never even thought of a criticism of the scene. Did Maester Luwin really believe that sorcery and magic is no more? Doe's own motivations were to shock the world out of its own apathy, and in forcing Mills' hand, he's able to do so, albeit in a small way. What was the ending of Night Moves about? The Sloth death isn't exactly cleargenerally we're supposed to assume that deaths to the victims are supposed to be a sort of'poetic' justice and a part of John Doe's larger spectacle and how each represents their respective sin. Sloth means spiritual laziness. It's police lingo for the word "detective", a shortened version of it. She ostensibly chooses the latter option. I loved it, but I have no idea why sloth wasnt as self explanatory as the other murders. The film actually rewards repeated viewings, which is nice, but I couldnt stop a particular question from popping into my mind as I watched the film again. Except envy, John Doe himself. Theodore "Victor" Allen is a drug dealer and child molester who appeared as a minor antagonist in the 1995 film Se7en and the comic book. (Although one suspects he picked his victim based on observation and knew she was pre-disposed to pride.). By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. However I would say yes, don't think about it so muchthe film is 25 years old nowthere are bound to be some plot holes. Doe mutilates Slade's face, then gives her the option of calling for help and living with her disfigurement or ending her own life with an overdose of sleeping pills. Dont get me wrong, I like it when directors take trashy genres and class them up, but I guess I prefer it when something more interesting is done with story and character. Sloth can also indicate a wasting due to lack of use, concerning a person, place, thing, skill, or intangible ideal that would require maintenance, refinement, or support to continue to exist. Reminder that Paltrow didn't get off easy during envy. I dont know. To me, the motivations of John Doe never made sense. This is just one of those minor little questions that occurs to me on watching a film like this. Doe meets up with Mills at the scene of the Sloth murder, and personally experiences Mills' violent temper which would make him the ideal candidate; later, Doe has the opportunity to kill Mills in the alley, but doesn't, probably to preserve him for becoming the seventh victim. I think the message of this movie would have been much more poignant if each of the victims had been given the chance to avert their fate but decided not to. Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. Read our extensive list of rules for more information on other types of posts like fan-art and self-promotion, or message the moderators if you have any questions. Which is to me just as (if not more) sadistic than John Does okay, youre dead in a horrific manner. Not that either option is anything less than horrifying. | However, I can understand the logic of most of them, barring Sloth. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. The final two victims are only revealed after Doe's arrest. The tubes are an IV line carrying nutrients, fluids, and whatever drugs John Doe was using to keep the victim alive and placid for the year he was trapped in the apartment. It is reasonable to assume that Mills was selected "on the spot". I was baffled. Also, John mentions about the Pride victim that she was "so ugly on the inside (that) she couldn't bear to go on living if she couldn't be beautiful on the outside", implying that he knew her personally, and she wasn't selected shortly before. Seven in the movie se7en refers to the the 7 deadly sins that people should not commit. Sorry. It can also be either an outright refusal or merely a carelessness in the performance of one's obligations, especially spiritual, moral or . Victor became a drug dealer and was arrested several times for a variety of crimes, including assault and the attempted rape of a minor. But like any movie that is this thought out and detailed, there are dozens of little Easter eggs and tidbits that the average audience member would never notice. Doe explains to Mills that he tried to live out his normal life of being happily married and in love with a. There are bound to be things to be found that don't make sense. Doe probably also had his eye on Eli Gould, the second victim (Greed), because he was the one who kept Victor out of jail. But actor Brad Pitt actually did injure himself during filming, his arm wound up going through the windshield of a car while they were filming a scene, and the damage done to his arm was bad enough that the wound had to be written into the rest of the film. Why would someone even make something like that? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Strapped to a bed rotting . Youre stoner comments inaccurate , I think you just watch to many movies. When John says that he has to readjust his schedule, it may just mean that he is changing the location of the murders, or his "headquarters", not the victims per se. Se7en / Seven Ending Explained (A Detailed Plot Analysis) Se7en or Seven is a 1995 Psychological Thriller, Crime Drama directed by David Fincher. The tubes are an IV line carrying nutrients, fluids, and whatever drugs John Doe was using to keep the victim alive and placid for the year he was trapped in the apartment. ", Director David Fincher's most physically horrifying "Seven" casualty, and most memorable jump, was played by a real human. However, the guy locked in his apartment (and, about a year afterwards, inside his own head), doesnt appear to have been especially slothful. I made a screen shot here. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. In short; Tracy told John Doe she was pregnant. i feel my natural reaction if i was a cop would have been to shoot that guy like he was a zombie that came back to life. Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? While he could potentially be charged with second-degree murder, the recordings of the incident, plus Somerset's testimony, plus the situation in of itself; a court would likely not convict a police officer who killed the man who admitted that he premeditatedly stalked and murdered his pregnant wife and sent him her severed head in a box. But the trap you're referring to was actually set up by Jigsaw, I believe, and it was a slow-acting poison, so I think it was supposed to have been possible to solve. I rewatched a few clips from se7ven and also had an issue with the victims of sloth, lust, and pride. Although Kevin Spacey is obviously the biggest name actor to appear in the film behind Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman, his presence in the film was a total surprise. The quote, coupled with Somerset assuring his captain that he'll "be around," evidences that he no longer intends to retire as he did before. He was recently transfered to homicide, and John Doe could not have known beforehand that Mills would be one of the detectives working on the case. Pride is seen as the most serious sin, from which all others arise; a love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one's neighbour. This is further proven by Somerset's decision not to retire, as he's shocked out of his apathy, which is referred to in an earlier scene where he discusses his reasons for retiring with Mills. Yep, its still something I find interesting. If we discount Alien3, this is one of the strongest directorial debuts ever. I think I was pretty cool," he says. But to enrage him, he needed to hurt him really bad. Gluttony, lust, sloth, and greed are all particularly brutal. For greed, he killed a lawyer. They walk back along the road for a few yards until Somerset notices a white van approaching them. Se7en - Sloth This generally demented film is often considered one of the pinnacles of the genre, and for good reason. To cast the role of a victim who was chained to a bed and starved, producers had only two criteria: the ability to lay . I dont know. Meanwhile, John is telling Mills how much he admires him and envies the life he has made for himself, so much that he went to Mills' home that morning and tried to play husband with Tracy. If your an attractive person, and offered a career to Modelwho wouldnt be tempted to take advantage of that opportunity? I dunno dude. Se7en's ending is particularly interesting as it not only allows its villain to win but seemingly justifies some of his actions in the process. Namely, the other headlines on the paper. Greed (avarice) is the seeking of material gain over spiritual gain. The city inSe7en is deliberately left unnamed. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The year is 9,000 B.C. Press J to jump to the feed. A drug dealing pedophile is a perfect example of someone rejecting their moral or spiritual obligations. Mills taunts him by saying that he has delusions of grandeur, but Somerset says very little. I think Doe chose Victor, a pederast and drug dealer as a victim because honest work is hard to do and requirse a lot of effort. To be honest though, I stumbled on this blog looking for more theories about the research into the victims deterioration. For lust, he had another person kill a prostitute. The "Envy" victim is the story's criminal, John Doe (Kevin Spacey). Seven Berks wrestlers advanced to the semifinals Friday at the PIAA Class 2A Southeast Regional Championships at Bethlehem Freedom High School. Itfelt so good to go home andget a shower. By the way, I checked the on-line dictionary for a definition of sloth and the following came back: Reluctance to work or make an effort; laziness. Doe strapped Allen to his bed and kept him barely alive for a full year, taking and leaving pictures to prove Allen's suffering in line with the sin of sloth. By the film's end, the events ofSe7en haveinspiredan obvious change in Detective Mills, but the final line of the film actually evidences a significant change in Somerset, too. The box contents delivered to Mills inSe7en's final scene aren't ever shown. I was a corpse for God's sake.' After this, Mills and Somerset are hot on the trail of Se7en's killer, and John Doeaccelerates his plans. I think Seven is a great movie, but I fast forward through the Lust kill, every time. Sure, its an entertaining and interesting serial killer movie but I dont see how its a masterpiece. Thats not necessarily right. It can also be either an outright refusal or merely a carelessness in the performance of one's obligations, especially spiritual, moral or legal obligations. When I first watched it I jumped so high I could've landed on the moon. In the Philokalia, the word dejection is used instead of sloth, for the person who falls into dejection will lose interest in life. The writer of the film did live in New York at the time that he was writing it, though. Most likely, giant sloths went extinct because the climate changed, and humans hunted them. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? User Reviews Humongous cave bears, saber-toothed tigers, and massive-antlered Irish elk roam the grasslands and forests of South America, but the biggest of all is the Megatherium, an elephant-sized ground sloth. Think about R. Lee Ermeys line in the film about Victor being raised a strict Southern Baptist but eschewing it in favor of dealing drugs (neither a difficult or virtuous job) and being a paedophile (real relationships take work and commitment, overpowering a minor with rape is neither difficult nor committed). Both believe they live in a Crapsack World, but Doe believes that because he is a completely egotistical bastard who ignores his . MacKay saw "Seven" with a friend and "both of us jumped up when I moved onscreen, as did everyone else in the theater. Mills killing John Doe is more significant than simply being the seventh murder and the representation of wrath. In my mind, this was the perfect way for John Doe to demoralize the detectives by showing them the inescapable nature of our sins. Seeing the poor guy sit in the interrogation room with the sheet around his shoulders and the knife dildo still on him, you realize how big it is and how much terrible damage something like that would do. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. The "Lust" victim was a prostitute (Cat Mueller) who was raped and killed by a man forced at gunpoint to use a strap-on dildo with blade attachment. Doe hoped that in turn Mills would then kill him, fulfilling the final sin, wrath (which also makes sure John is punished by death for his sin). But again, it feels like the story is there to only live up to the premise of what if there is a serial killer who murders are based on the 7 deadly sins? In other words, it feels fairly straightforward and arguably predictable (other than ending, I suppose). Edit, They are the most deadly vices, according to Pope Gregory the Great in the 6th century. At the third crime scene the detectives find a man by the name of Victor. This man happens to be a drug dealer and child molester, representing sloth. She was provided with a telephone to call an ambulance, hence living life disfigured and scarred, and sleeping pills to commit suicide and escape the life of disfigurement. Glad I got to see it like it was the first time again. However, I had a bit of difficulty making slothstick. For gluttony, our serial killer had a guy literally eat himself to death. Being a Model is a job, it does not make up for who you really are. This sees Mills and Somerset caught up in Doe's sadistic scheme as the killer attempts to exact his final murders. But Se7en has several missing links.this particular one is probably one of them. Victor was subsequently sent to a hospital, where he was diagnosed as being brain dead. Perhaps Im reading too much into it and the guy was just a lazy bag of bits, but its strange that this grabbed me weird fancy one evening. Only when doe mutilates her face she chose to end her life with pills, that is debatable that it is shame vs pride, lost of identity. 2. Seven - Sloth Scene os99 213 subscribers 1.1M views 14 years ago This is the discovery of the Sloth victim in the 1995 masterpiece Seven (or Se7en). Where are Billy Crudup, Kate Hudson, Patrick Fugit now? Another question is what city did this movie take place in? The film's leading cast includes Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman, Kevin Spacey and Gwyneth Paltrow. I always laugh when I see the real arm. Well just like in the real world in which the prop was made, the killer could had said it was for a movie. I asked myself If I was writing the book, what occupation or personal day choose to represent sloth? Perhaps theres an aspect of enablement to this. However, the role ultimately went to Kevin Spacey. Se7en (1/5) Movie CLIP - The Sloth Victim (1995) HD - YouTube 0:00 / 2:39 Se7en (1/5) Movie CLIP - The Sloth Victim (1995) HD Movieclips 58.8M subscribers Subscribe 2.7M views 11 years. Se7en's finale sees the sins of wrath and envy ultimately committed by Mills and Doe. Edit, The "Gluttony" victim (Bob Mack) was an unnamed obese man who was forced to eat until his stomach bursts, killing him. @Yasskier you have a gross misunderstanding of what my sentence means. I googled the question..why was the junkie picked to represent sloth in the move se7en? There were several species of giant sloths, but the largest was Megatherium Americanum. I dont know. As for pride, The model she wasnt engaging in sin of pride. From what I gather in popular culture, it works in a fairly simple manner: a few people show up, pay you a large amount of money, and then leave. The nature ofSe7en's city is used by Doe to justify his crimes, as its people are deemed apathetic, and the murders are intended to shock them into creating a better world. However, the victim of sloth confused me a little bit. He is tied to his bed and barely alive. A crime thriller in which the villain wins is a relatively rare phenomenon, but it cementsSe7en's place as a true great of modern cinema. The Curious, Qualified Appeal of "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" 12 Movie Moments of 2012: We Built This City (Rock of Ages), Screenwriter (Donald Clarke, Irish Times). Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Brad Pitt's Detective Millsthen kills Doe, making Doe the sixth victim (representing envy) and ensuring Mills becomes the embodiment of the final sin (wrath). Easy money. He had a special murder weapon created for the Lust victim, and the man he forced to use it on the victim seemed to be a completely random guy, but this does not exclude the possibility that the victim was carefully selected long before that. Are we supposed to know what happened to his left hand, and what exactly are those tubes in his right arm? And while Se7en is actually relatively low on the typical scale of horror movie jump scares, there is one particular moment where he decided to employ this filmmaking technique to make the shocking moment even more effective. Not just you. So was he wearing a strapon with a knife at the end and fucked the prostitute to death? It reminds of the part of Inception where they blow up the hospital. Or is there like a DIY Instruction manual? Would Mills have gone to prison for shooting and killing John Doe? ", A triumphant MacKay was happy to have the makeup removed. He's in . Or he could had just made it himself. And they said, 'Oh, my God, thats creepy.' Strange statement to make with no evidence to back it up. Taunting the detective, Doe reveals that he has killed Mills' wife, Tracy (and their unborn child), as he envied Mills' normal life. He wanted a normal family life like Mills had; when Tracy Mills (Gwyneth Paltrow) refused to go along with him, he killed her, making her a victim of Envy, her death off-screen and her unseen, decapitated head mailed to Mills and Somerset in the desert. I dont know, maybe she was a unnecessarily nasty person inside and deserved it. Thoughthe film's ending leaves its narrative open, there's no need for a sequel toSe7en. And in his masterpiece the mills who e is driven to wrath , vs that being his everyday sin circumstantial sin in the moment .unlike his other victims mills survived. The goal of /r/Movies is to provide an inclusive place for discussions and news about films with major releases. Esteban De Armas/Shutterstock.com. "It was so visually arrestingthat itjust looked fake," McGinley recalls. 2023 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Satellite Information Network, LLC. Theodore Victor Allen grew up with abusive parents, and as a result of this, suffered a a variety of mental illnesses later on in life. How did John Doe select his victims? Perhaps, as the prostitute might be argued to encourage lust, you could argue that a drug dealer encourages and enables sloth he allows and fuels a lifestyle built around that particular deadly sin. The SLOTH victim, exactly why was he to be tortured to death "this" way? Here's Se7en's ending explained in detail. The manipulator had placed an IV in Victor's arm to provide him with just enough . Of course she chose to overdose rather than call for help. He was rendered immobile tied to a bed and left to rot in his own excriment with a feeding tube. Spaceys monologue sells the whole film and almost reads like a letter of intent to the viewer as to why the movie is being presented in a dark, disturbing fashion. Warner Home Video. "But it certainly wasn't. I'm okay..' What a shock. Following this, Doe moves on to pride, the fifth sin, and his next victim is a model named Rachel Slade. I think se7en suffers because every serial killer movie since has been trying to ape it at the time, the only film that really felt similar was The Silence of the Lambs, but now films like that are a dime a dozen. AHhhooowww don't get me started with that one. ending twist is a relatively simple one, and that's part of what makes it so effective: though the box's grisly contents are never shown (or even explicitly described), it's made clear that it contains Tracy's severed head, and it's Mills' actions afterward that are most significant to Se7en's conclusion. So then I put myself in the shoes of the writer of the story. I rewatched Se7en the other night and specifically went searching the internet for the reason why a man who is FORCED to stay in bed by his captor would be considered lazy. 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